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Post by twistedangel on Apr 16, 2013 12:17:26 GMT -5
Fiscal policy ya bullshit GDP Really means f*ck all to me Yet the world fell into compliance In economic flawed science As another factory falls into silence
Their waist bands still widening As our dole queues are heightening The lazy earning money for nothing From the doers they fiscally f*cking An another shop advertises a closing
From working hands you wos well fed Back stabbin bankers the lies you said These hands now broken smashed an bled Turn to sharks as ya destroy our loan cred Downturn profits as more jobs shed
Economist caught the greed disease Hole world now down on bloody knees So the f*ckerz decide to increase bank fees 1000s of familys disowned an dispossessed Only stop when the hole worlds repossessed
1% of the pop owning 90% of wot we all got Tax man the axe man our heads on the block How free is the rat running on the wheel A race to nowhere in hope of a meal Aint just our money the bankers steal
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Post by windfog on Apr 17, 2013 23:32:44 GMT -5
Very angry, powerful piece! A real rage. I agree with you and I disagree with you. Perhaps because I know that on the earth there is no justice ... at least by now. I think that once evolution in people's relationships will make our society better, or maybe not. Who knows ... Enjoyed with reading! W.F.
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Post by LonelyForsaken on Apr 19, 2013 19:46:33 GMT -5
The rhyming drives me nuts as I read this but I did keep reading. It's creative and I love the sentiment. Overall it's a nice rage piece that is easy to relate to. I'd like to see you free yourself of the constraint of rhyming. Welcome to Dark Star TwistedAngel. Please take a look at our rules and guidelines here; darkstarpoetry.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=infoTake your time, read, and get to know us. I've learned a lot reading the replies to the poetry here and there is a lot of good poems to be found here. It will give you an idea of the kind of helpful replies we hope to receive and you may even find a poem or two that inspires you to write.
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Post by twistedangel on Apr 20, 2013 14:10:43 GMT -5
cheers guys thanks for the comment @ windfog you are allowed to disagree an i would be happy to argue the point over a few bourbons any time @ LonleyForsaken i get wot you is saying about 'rhyme' thats you own personal problem with poetry..dont try an make it mine thers a skill in writing poems that rhyme that sticks to the point gets the message/story across an avoids the clichés..any one can write somthing that looks like a poem that dont rhyme ..anyone with legs can move their feet ..dont make them a dancer
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Post by windfog on Apr 20, 2013 23:32:58 GMT -5
Thank you, lady! You are very kind! W.F.
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Post by LonelyForsaken on Apr 23, 2013 22:35:44 GMT -5
twistedangel - “@ LonleyForsaken i get wot you is saying about 'rhyme' thats you own personal problem with poetry..dont try an make it mine”
thers a skill in writing poems that rhyme that sticks to the point gets the message/story across an avoids the clichés..any one can write somthing that looks like a poem that dont rhyme ..anyone with legs can move their feet ..dont make them a dancer
You just made it obvious where the problem is. Did I hurt your feelings? If I did it’s only because you’re overly sensitive to this subject. I am the first to give you any feedback that can be considered even slightly negative in any way and you reply with a retort. You know nothing of me personally and I know nothing of you either. Don’t try to make this personal. There is nothing personal about it. ““@ LonleyForsaken i get wot you is saying about 'rhyme'…” No, you don’t. You jumped to an assumption but I will try to explain later.
You so cleverly try to place me on the defensive with this that I actually applaud your skill but what you fail to recognize is that with this post you just told me a multitude of negatives about yourself; you don’t want any constructive criticism, you can’t handle constructive criticism, you don’t understand the spirit in which constructive criticism is given, and you certainly don’t appreciate constructive criticism.
What we strive to do here is help each other improve our writing skills. That takes some negative feedback to accomplish. You can’t improve if you can’t see what you’re doing wrong so we make a point of highlighting what we think can be improved upon. When you post in any category under the “Poetry” heading you are asking for feedback. This is not a vanity site and we strive to give more than platitudes. I could have done better. I admit I was in a hurry and I did not give any examples of why I feel the way I do about your rhyming in this write. I barely even mentioned it and didn’t think you would or could find anything provocative in it. Had you asked or shown interest I would have gladly come back and explained farther but as it is…. pfft…. And then you go on and try to paint me as some kind of idiot who doesn’t have a clue as to what I’m talking about. You are at the least being disrespectful but I can read between the lines and you so cleverly skirt the lines of contempt and malice that I applaud you again. You don’t actually come right out and commit the act but the sentiment is obvious. I don’t like to be berated, nobody does, especially when it is undeserved and I don’t like doing it either. It won’t happen again.
Over the last couple of days I have gone back and forth on how to handle this. My passive aggressive nature says I should just ignore you and watch as you fade away like so many others here have done after they got their feelings hurt but I actually like you and in just the two works you have posted I see a lot of skill and a lot to like. You are the kind of writer we hope will join us but…. Rule number one is that you must always be respectful. You don’t have to like the feedback you get. Take it with a grain of salt if you must but we don’t allow malicious intent or disrespect. Dark Star is a safe place and we will keep it that way. Had you done this to anyone else I would be honor bound to alert Leash and/or Chris. We love to discuss and even argue but leave your anger out of it. I would love to see you stay and contribute your work and experience but I will never again comment on one of your rhyming poems unless you ask. I want to follow up on your question in your other poem thread but I don’t reward bad behavior. The retort you sent back to me is the worst thing you can do. Do you think I’ll be commenting on any of your work again soon? Perhaps you think that is a good thing but if you do it only goes to prove that you would be much more comfortable at a vanity site. Do you think anyone who sees this thread is going to jump right in with a risky reply or just give you platitudes? Take it in the spirit it is given. If they are trying to be helpful then do what you will with it. If they are trying to be malicious, report it, but the quickest way to get banned from here is by doing what you just did.
Now, as to my “problem” with rhyming; If you read back a few years here you will see that I have had my own struggle with rhyming and I applaud anyone who can pull it off well. The general problem I see with it is that it has been done to death and too many of us are conditioned to relate poetry with rhyming only. There are many readers, a lot of them are here, that won’t read past the first few lines if there is too much of it or if it is not done well. Personally, I like rhyming, but when it feels too repetitious or forced it’s a turn off. It has been done well so many times and for so long that it is very hard to compete with. I struggled hard to free myself of its constraint. I was really horrible when I started and I seemed to need its structure to make a read feel poetic. It also helped me focus. I did get fairly good at it. My favorite is “Sand.” I have a write called “Mercy” that rhymes so much naturally that I still go back now and then to see if I can make it rhyme well. I tried to write all the rhyming out of it but that didn’t work either. What I’m saying is that I like rhyming if it is done well. If it can’t be done well than it should not be done at all. That is my personal rule. I do NOT hold others to it. I have dozens of crappie rhyming poetry posted here. Most of it I don’t even want to admit I wrote but when I got feedback I listened and I tried my best to see from that persons perspective, and I learned. I gave extra thanks to those who gave me negative feedback because I know how hard it is to tell someone that they are doing it wrong. I’m no expert by any stretch but even I can see that the rhyming in this is forced and if you weren’t so sensitive about it I’m sure others would point it out and do their best to help. I suspect you got a lot of platitudes about it at other sites and are convinced that it is good rhyming. It's clever and a good poem, but IMO, the rhyming is not good.
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Post by LonelyForsaken on Apr 27, 2013 1:18:52 GMT -5
Hi TwistedAngel
First I want to apologize publicly for reading more into your reply than you intended. She and I have been communicating privately to resolve this issue. I believe we suffer much the same problem. I went through this and I feel a kinship in the fact that I began writing so very much just like this. One good thing that I hope comes from leaving my previous post here is that others will read it and know that Dark Star is a safe place where we enforce respect. We know that poetry is an emotional form of writing and opinions differ to extremes sometimes. We invite discussion and expression of almost any form but we can’t and don’t allow disrespect. It happens and I have seen too many friends banned or never return because a heated discussion went too far and feelings where hurt. This is the last thing I want to see here and I’m a bit sensitive of its possibility. That makes it sound like it happens often but it doesn’t and it won’t happen again if I can help prevent it. I wish to extend my personal thanks to TwistedAngel for her patient understanding. I should have taken the time to explain better my stand on rhyming poetry and why I feel this leaves room for improvement.
To that end; I like rhyming but it has been done well so many times and for so long that it is hard to compete with and in my opinion it is the most difficult aspect of poetry to master today. The rhyming in this is clever and better than much of what I see being published today. I really don’t understand why it is that people today seem to think any and all rhyming instantly qualifies as good poetry. I argue both sides of this argument because I understand both sides of it. I applaud anyone who can successfully pull it off. I have tried at least a hundred times and I have very few I consider a success. If you can pull it off successfully it makes it much easier to recite from memory. I feel it is far easier to create a memorable poem through imagery but if you can do both together then you should publish it and be paid well.
What I find difficult to like in this is its repetition and forced word choices. When I think of the most memorable poems I think of famous poems like “The Raven” by Edger Allan Poe. If you look it up and read through it you’ll notice that he doesn’t rhyme each and every line. He does rhyme more lines than I normally find appealing but I consider this poem an exception and extreme. Poe is a master of rhyme. Also note his imagery. Well done master, I salute you. He mixes it up and just about the time frequent rhyming begins to become irritating he gives the reader a rest from it. When read for the first time much of it seems unexpected or unpredictable. You’re not quite sure if you should expect the next line to rhyme or not. That can be the only reason so frequent rhyming works. Unpredictability.
My personal favorite is yet another exception. His opening is bad in IMO and it is so repetitive that I hesitate to use it as an example here but I love both the subject and while his imagery is not as vivid as I have grown to love it is good. Robert Frosts “Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening” has the most memorable ending of any poem I have ever read. He breaks every rule of rhyming in my book. The last two lines are exact copies of each other but the emotion and imagery he invokes in me is priceless. I do not consider him a master of rhyme in any way yet I remember this poem and even have trouble getting his last strophe out of my head sometimes. Like a song I heard on the radio that I just can’t get out of my head.
In this poem, “Stolen Property” I do find pares of lines that I like. Eg;
“In economic flawed science As another factory falls into silence”
“The lazy earning money for nothing From the doers they fiscally f*cking”
“A race to nowhere in hope of a meal Aint just our money the bankers steal”
These three examples have many aspects I like. They are all bold and spunky for one. And as an example; “In economic flawed science” your word combinations say a lot for so little. This one line reminds me of so much failure in our economic and even political world today and the mention of closing factories (loss of jobs) in the next line ties in beautify. But there is no respite from rhyme between them. Every line in this poem rhymes with the one before it or after it.
And a perfect example of repetitive forced rhyming is this entire strophe; “From working hands you wos well fed Back stabbin bankers the lies you said These hands now broken smashed an bled Turn to sharks as ya destroy our loan cred Downturn profits as more jobs shed”
fed said bled cred shed
Repetitive. Three in a row is pushing it. Five can’t work. Hmmmm? I was about to say it can’t work ever but I know that if I do someone will soon prove me wrong. LOL
And there is little to no imagery. It’s just like my early works but it does display more cleverness than I remember my poetry having. I did not have the guts or courage to do some of the things I see you attempt here. Even the word “cred” while forced is very clever. It is not even a real word but I know exactly what it means. :-)
I hope this helps and I hope I can continue to help. I do like your work a lot and I believe you’ll get better at this faster than I did.
Take care,
LF
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